mesa-lib

[Zbigniew Luszpinski]

> On 06/20/2012 03:14 AM, Dennis Veatch wrote:
> > On 06/20/2012 01:12 AM, Auke Kok wrote:
> >> On 06/19/2012 06:11 PM, Zbigniew Luszpinski wrote:
> >>> Sorry Auke but these are sad facts about stable. As I promised I
> >>> keep
> >>> away
> >>> from stable so do not know personally how changes looks like there -
> >>> only
> >>> know what Jean wrote on dev ML some time ago.
> >>> 
> >>> The term Jabbers is just my observation of dev ML and effect of my
> >>> frustration seeing how much characters were wasted on jabbering not
> >>> coding. My posts are also waste because I know I could use this time
> >>> for debugging/fixing/improving/updating Lunar. I have one life, one
> >>> time - nobody will give me second life or more time. Life is short
> >>> and I want it
> >>> spend effective. I do not like jabbering that is why I avoid irc and
> >>> seldom post on ML. I'm not a nice guy who smiles to others. People
> >>> do
> >>> not
> >>> have to like me and I'm sure they do not like me. Lunar is the thing
> >>> they
> >>> should like. If it will be user friendly, up to date and stable they
> >>> will
> >>> like it. Some of them for sure will like to join and improve it
> >>> more.
> >> 
> >> Enough is enough.
> >> 
> >> I have revoked your commit access to moonbase.
> >> 
> >> From now on, in order to get your changes in, you will need to send a
> >> git pull request to me, and Cc this mailing list.
> >> 
> >> The git pull request must be in the following format, or include the
> >> same elements at least:
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> 
> >> Hi! I've made the following changes in my git tree. You can pull the
> >> changes from here:
> >> 
> >> git pull <git url> <branchname>
> >> 
> >> <output of `git diff [BASE] | diffstat -p1`>
> >> <output of `git log --pretty=format:"%s" [BASE]`>
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> 
> >> I will review your changes as usual with any review process, and
> >> decide
> >> either to accept or reject them as I see fit, based on my own or
> >> other
> >> developers' opinions.
> > 
> > There are two things I see in this thread that concern me.
> > 
> > First is the view that some of us devs are expected to be janitors
> > spinning our wheels fixing breakage not caused by our own commits. For
> > a while I was mostly OK with that thinking some things will always
> > slip by but it reached a point that I was spending more time doing
> > that than offering my meager help fixing more fundamental issues.
> > 
> > The second item is the prevailing view that fast and furious updates
> > coupled with ensuring moonbase has the absolute latest and greatest
> > will some how attract users and developers. Well, it should be
> > obvious over the past several years that is not working. I suspect it
> > has done the opposite because there is not enough of us devs to keep
> > up with the constant breakage caused by the rapid pace of updates. It
> > should be obvious that type of scenario demotivates since no matter
> > how fast problems can be fixed more are piled on faster than can be
> > handled.
> I've done about 5-6 clean installs in the last month, and in all of them
> I've wasted at least an hour getting past mesa-lib+xorg. That's just
> unacceptable IMO, so I share your sentiment.

The best thing is to share bug report. Otherwise we can not do anything.

> > I get your concern about the tone of his responses and to be honest I
> > am mostly OK with that chalking it up to his non-native language
> > skills. I see v4hn just posted a response while I am typing this
> > asking for an explanation. I don't need one, your the lead and your
> > decision, that I am fine with even if the shoe had been on my foot.
> > 
> > I do think zbiggy is entitled to express his opinion even if it means
> > calling me a "jabber". In my 56 years such an accusation hardly
> > registers on my radar.

My intention was not to accuse anyone. If you feel accused - I'm very 
sorry. It was just observation. Mainly because first post on this topic 
and most of later too was mostly emotional and hardly technical. 
Especially first post - the bug report lacked description of answers given 
to the rest of mesa-lib questions. Such things irritates me because an 
user wants me to test all possible answers to all questions hoping that I 
accidentaly discover right combination which will show his problem which 
may exist only on his machine.

> That's not the main part of my concern.
> 
> The biggest reason I have a problem with some of the replies is that
> people would rather write 3 very long e-mails than do what another
> developer asks.
> 
> That's entirely the wrong attitude.

I also think this is main part of concern. Auke as project leader has an 
idea how Lunar should look like. And he expects that the team will be 
realising his concept. This is right. My problem is that I have complete 
opposite Lunar perception how Lunar should look like. This causes all 
these idea collisions for these years. I hoped that people would like more 
modern Lunar and more automated - user friendly behaviour. This was 
obvious mistake. Other people on dev ML looks to prefer Auke's way of 
doing things. So we are here at final conclusion that I'm not doing 
anything good in this project. So it is time to say thank you and good bye 
to all kind and patient people here who allowed me realize my Lunar 
conception.