non-free vs. free packages

Couannette couannette at
Thu Oct 20 00:09:57 UTC 2005

Jon South a écrit :
> Couannette wrote:
>>Thus we should free the users from any new and error-prone method of handling
>>those non-free modules. We just have to inform them on a per module basic off
>>licensing restrictions (i.e. with a DETAILS's field, that's the simplest way I
> Hold up just a minute there..."error prone?" You do know that use of
> things like fdisk, partitioning, formatting, kernel config, drivers, etc
> are required knowledge before even installing lunar...

I know that every piece of code that has to be added over a not so easy to
maintain base is a risk : that's why I consider this task error prone.
In embedded software for avionics I've often seen a single bit of bad
logic/conception/code to hamper a whole project.

> If downloading a package with a non-free moonbase would be considered
> "error-prone" by people who must be at least a *bit* tech savvy then
> perhaps we should gui-fy the entire distro and put in all kinds of eye
> candy and disallow any kind of advanced setups. How about we rename the
> project to Lunar-Hatlindrake too. I don't mean to turn potential new
> users away from lunar, but lunar is not entirely meant for consumption
> by the general public. It's more of a server distro for server admins
> that are already know their way around linux. Lunar is the more lean &
> mean man's distro -- we're so far from the "I'm new to loonix, help me

Yeah: lean & mean = simple :)

> plz." crowd, it's not even funny. We're working bit by bit towards
> helping along the linux newbies, but we're still _very_ far off.

I totaly agree: that's for why I've chosen Lunar & why Lunar is the best distro
I think : the simpler way to build&install software is in lin. Lin is very thin
compared to Gentoo Python scripts... Moonbase is very simple and straitforward
compared to Gentoo portages...

> Also, downloading a non-free moonbase addon could be completely
> automated, and could be added or removed at the user's leisure. I'm of
> the opinion that we /should/ have seperate moonbases for FOSS and
> non-free. This solves the debate we're having of mirroring files that
> are not allowed to be cached elsewhere -- we just wont have files from
> the non-free moonbase cached on our mirrors. Plus, I don't want opera to
> touch my server...wretched thing.
> My $0.02,
> -Striker

Ok, j'en ai une à deux francs aussi ;)
lets stop telling each other the best solution,
and lets start talking of our common requirements:

- we want to address the download and cache problem
- we want the user know the license and let him handle the situation himself

Lets dig into theses requirements with steadfast method and a solution will emerge.

Let me tell you a requirement of mine:
- I can the network modules to be in network section BECAUSE I expect them to be
there for a logical reason. Whether they are free or non-free.

If I recall we can handle the first problem with
- check if the package can be downloaded by reading the web site / license
- check if it can be cached with the package provider (I recall the email with
ATI about fglrx)
Decide to offer caching in most cases, and put a flag in DETAILS for those
packages that don't allow caching.

The second problem could be handled simple in the description field of the module.

Taking my requirement I can't submit a solution implying a separate section for
non-free modules. But I can understand you point of view: creating a separate
section for non-free module could help you manage those awfull, horrible, crapy,
dirty, smelly,.... software that are non-free :D :D :D ; for example : Acrobat
Reader, Maya, Quake III, Neverwinter Nights, Java (crap! crap! crap!), Opera
(hu? what the fuck using this clone?), RPM (aaaaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh, noooooooo,
;^)....), Microsoft TTFs (please, please, please! mercy!!! .... huh!!! ...
mercy? mercy has nothing to do with it!).... and all that stuff ;)

What do you think of that ? I expect some ideas.

Pffff, good night fellows :)

I beg your pardon: I'm not very clear in my english tonight :)

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