summary of meeting 20040605

[Auke Kok]

Here's a short summary of yesterday's meeting:


discussed topics were:
1. outline for a policy/guideline/responsibilties as a dev
2. dependency problems in current moonbase and core code
3. next meeting


1. outline for a policy/guideline/responsibilties as a dev

Everybody agrees that things need to be clear especially for newer 
developers. Having a manifest or set of guidelines seems the answer, 
that way we can refer back to these docs and make sure everyone has read 
them. This document should cover:

a) new developer guidelines - how to become a developer
b) ethics and morale - how not to piss off other developers
c) how to write good modules - or how to properly use the core code 
calls etc.

part b) should be restricted to developers who "are" dev already. The 
other 2 docs can be publicly accessible.

Striker, Moe, hardkrash will revise the two documents I have gathered 
(kongars webpage, my e-mail). After that they'll be up for review and 
will be posted to the website (dev corner?). Note that in the meeting 
much more was said that should go into these docs as well.


2. dependency problems in current moonbase and core code

roughly there are the following issues and resolutions at hand:

a) devs using cvs moonbase (fixable - core adjustments)

b) (ab)use of profiles

   * profiles use the dependency system. This inheritently increases the 
load on the dep system. Especially when profiles become used as 
dependency (xserver-profile) things get out of hand. This should be 
prevented.
   (shortcut: remove xserver-profile as dependency alltogether?)
   (alternative: use 'groups' - a structure that does not use 
dependencies, ie allow grouping of modules)
   (alternative: use 'aliases'. however this idea has not been worked 
out yet and hasn't proven it's useability)
   (extra: have depends handle clusters of dependencies (noprox' - 
please elaborate on this in the ML))
   (extra: make sure all deps are up2date before upgrading an app)

my suggestion was to make sure moonbase becomes clean, clear and simple 
again with respect to dependencies before we start to include 
alternative algorithms (auto-post-rebuils e.g.). This basically means a 
*/*/DEPENDS overhaul.

things that need to go:
  - if you answered 'yes' there say 'no' here
  - circular dependencies
  - X11 as a dependency (ACK)

Next, we need to make sure we know that breaks if module X gets 
recompiled (perl-> cpan modules, openssl -> openssh (on major version 
release) )

We should try to make applications depend on real dependencies instead 
of profiles. A lot of gnome apps for instance are really gtk apps, 
reducing the list of deps needed to run them dramatically.




c) overloaded DEPENDS

   * there are too many 'functional' but not 'run-time' depends. This 
increases the chance of failure and complexity, and also introduces 
circular dependencies (teTeX, X11, PAM)
   ( we need to track these down and remove them from the dependency 
system, alternatively replace them with auto-detection code that enables 
or disables these extra features, this way the dependency system stays 
simple and lean)



3. next meeting

planned for sunday 13th june, 2200CET 1600EST. please rsvp in advance so 
  we know everyone can make it. Agenda points will be e-mailed 
separately this week


thanks all for being there!!!

sofar